Post by Angie on Aug 24, 2005 18:55:51 GMT -5
I don’t want to burst anyone’s bubble or be a total kill-joy, but PK opened this can of worms! LOL What the college SHOULD be teaching you guys is actual JOB skills, like the Peach Tree Software, Quicken Software, and yes - the old Lotus software. And REAL networking skills, not how to allow several office computers to share a connection and desktop - I mean REAL networking, where a business can network into their supplier’s database and handle their purchasing, shipping, and receiving all over the world - across the internet. How to set up an Inventory router, how to set up a payroll database, a tax database - things a business actually NEEDS. How to write a Business plan, a Marketing Strategy, how to develop a Company Handbook, OSHA rules and regs., How to prepare an inter-state compact agreement, how to fill out an out of this country shipping (because of customs) order. I mean - SKILLS. Real skills. Did they even show you guys the Linux system? Most big businesses are Linux based. Windows OS is for people - not businesses.
When I went to work for TAS, I was sub-contracted by Volvo of North America to develop and design a whole new series of Tech Manuals for all 2006 - forth - Volvo diesel trucks, class 6, 7, and 8. A new device was being introduced to the engine which effected the driver of the vehicle, the working of the engine, and manner in which the vehicle was serviced and stored. To make it simple to understand - basically they were attaching a computer controlled device that could start and stop the engine based on temperature, oil pressure, and state of battery charge - without the need of a human. Because of rising fuel costs, the environmental effects of diesel exhaust, and 2006 idling rules and regulations - restrictions had to be placed on all newly manufactured diesel engines to keep them in compliance. This new manual not only had to serve as a technical support manual for the owner/operator of the vehicle, but a service manual for service personnel. Since this was the introduction of a whole new device into the market place, of course there had to be all sorts of education and marketing done first. So, before we could even begin the manual, first we had to introduce the device at the manufacturing level. Anyway, what I’m getting to is, in order to do this job I had to be able to access and work within a networked Linux OS, directly with the engineers on a CAD program, they designed the schematics and I had to take them (using the CAD program) and convert them to digital format for reproduction. PIC chips had to be programmed accordingly, and if you’ve programmed PIC chips you know how precise this has to be! This was the “brain box” of the device itself. The entire circuit board had to be mapped. This included every last resistor, every diode, every capacitor, every sensor - every piece and part on that entire board. The wiring had to be traced, identified, and detailed. From device development to manufacture, to engine installation, to the completed vehicle rolling off the assembly line - people from all over the world had to work together, network, coordinate. My job duties were setting up these networks, the ability to work within several different environments, and coordinate all the incoming data down to a single - concise - operations manual. Once the data was all collected, everything converted to the proper format, and all the testing results in, phase 2 began. The chain from parts suppliers to device manufacturer, device manufacturer to testing facility, testing facility to field operations, field operations to engine installation, engine installation to vehicle manufacturing, to finished product in the market place - all had to be coordinated and documented. I’m not trying to be a smart ass, but honestly - did anything you were taught in school prepare you for a job like this? Now, wanna know the worst part of all? This wasn’t even a high end job. This was considered about mid-level in the world of computer technology and information services. I was making around $9 an hour base pay for TAS, and up to about $16 during the length of the sub-contract. How sad is that?
I can also give you a real world example in the Nuclear Industry. Unless you’ve been trained on software development and testing - forget ever getting a job in Document Services (nuclear plant “office” jobs). Not going to happen. For an entry level position you’ve got to be familiar with about 6 different platforms and languages you’ve probably never even heard of. Nuclear plants develop their own software, nothing they use can be bought at Best Buy. LOL Java, CSS, C++, CGI, PHP, Perl, forget about it, all this stuff you’re busting tail to learn - useless. That’s all considered design skills, and not related at all to programming skills. You’d be better off walking in with a hand full of Microsoft certifications. Hell, you’d be better off walking in with a good knowledge of DOS commands! I’m serious. LOL How do I know? My Dad is a Civil Engineer for the NRC and my ex-hubby is a Senior Executive in Document Services - to get a job at the plant in Kansas, it would be him you have to impress. And like I said, I’m talking entry level here, all this for a job that starts out at about $9-something an hour. My ex-hubby makes closer to $40 an hour but hell’s bell’s - he’s been at it now for over 25 years! That’s a hell of a long time to “work your way up” to $10 LESS than what a Plumber or Electrician makes an hour, huh?
The only real money in the computer industry is in development, not design - and people tend to get this confused. A designer takes already developed languages and platforms and builds upon them with already developed tools in a creative, functional, and innovative manner. A developer is the person who created those languages, platforms, and tools. You have a hell of a lot better shot at making money if you can develop a game - create a game - than make high score on it. See what I’m saying? This is what colleges SHOULD teach. And maybe some do, I’ve never really looked into specialized programs offered by colleges such as IT Tech and the like. They may well do just that. But the typical computer courses offered by the average community college are so lame - I personally am amazed the Pell people even extend loans for them at all. When my friend Joanne was going thru a course very similar to what you guys are taking in Illinois, her course studies never ceased to amaze me. She spent weeks on crap like Power Point and Works Office. Christ, order Video Professor for $9.95 and save yourself the trip! LOL They also spent weeks on component part study, what a modem was, how it worked, what a router was, how it worked - again, Christ - read the tech manual and get on with it. LOL After she graduated (top of her class, I might add) she applied at TAS… they offered her a job in the Secretarial pool - answering the phone and sending faxes - $6.10 an hour. One of the gals in that same office had a GED and nothing else, hired at the same rate of pay for the same position. Is that wrong or what? Minorities who could barely speak English were making close to $10 an hour on the floor, working the assembly line.
That glory days of Silicon Valley and Dot Com business ventures are over guys. There is no gold rush, we missed it.
~Ang
When I went to work for TAS, I was sub-contracted by Volvo of North America to develop and design a whole new series of Tech Manuals for all 2006 - forth - Volvo diesel trucks, class 6, 7, and 8. A new device was being introduced to the engine which effected the driver of the vehicle, the working of the engine, and manner in which the vehicle was serviced and stored. To make it simple to understand - basically they were attaching a computer controlled device that could start and stop the engine based on temperature, oil pressure, and state of battery charge - without the need of a human. Because of rising fuel costs, the environmental effects of diesel exhaust, and 2006 idling rules and regulations - restrictions had to be placed on all newly manufactured diesel engines to keep them in compliance. This new manual not only had to serve as a technical support manual for the owner/operator of the vehicle, but a service manual for service personnel. Since this was the introduction of a whole new device into the market place, of course there had to be all sorts of education and marketing done first. So, before we could even begin the manual, first we had to introduce the device at the manufacturing level. Anyway, what I’m getting to is, in order to do this job I had to be able to access and work within a networked Linux OS, directly with the engineers on a CAD program, they designed the schematics and I had to take them (using the CAD program) and convert them to digital format for reproduction. PIC chips had to be programmed accordingly, and if you’ve programmed PIC chips you know how precise this has to be! This was the “brain box” of the device itself. The entire circuit board had to be mapped. This included every last resistor, every diode, every capacitor, every sensor - every piece and part on that entire board. The wiring had to be traced, identified, and detailed. From device development to manufacture, to engine installation, to the completed vehicle rolling off the assembly line - people from all over the world had to work together, network, coordinate. My job duties were setting up these networks, the ability to work within several different environments, and coordinate all the incoming data down to a single - concise - operations manual. Once the data was all collected, everything converted to the proper format, and all the testing results in, phase 2 began. The chain from parts suppliers to device manufacturer, device manufacturer to testing facility, testing facility to field operations, field operations to engine installation, engine installation to vehicle manufacturing, to finished product in the market place - all had to be coordinated and documented. I’m not trying to be a smart ass, but honestly - did anything you were taught in school prepare you for a job like this? Now, wanna know the worst part of all? This wasn’t even a high end job. This was considered about mid-level in the world of computer technology and information services. I was making around $9 an hour base pay for TAS, and up to about $16 during the length of the sub-contract. How sad is that?
I can also give you a real world example in the Nuclear Industry. Unless you’ve been trained on software development and testing - forget ever getting a job in Document Services (nuclear plant “office” jobs). Not going to happen. For an entry level position you’ve got to be familiar with about 6 different platforms and languages you’ve probably never even heard of. Nuclear plants develop their own software, nothing they use can be bought at Best Buy. LOL Java, CSS, C++, CGI, PHP, Perl, forget about it, all this stuff you’re busting tail to learn - useless. That’s all considered design skills, and not related at all to programming skills. You’d be better off walking in with a hand full of Microsoft certifications. Hell, you’d be better off walking in with a good knowledge of DOS commands! I’m serious. LOL How do I know? My Dad is a Civil Engineer for the NRC and my ex-hubby is a Senior Executive in Document Services - to get a job at the plant in Kansas, it would be him you have to impress. And like I said, I’m talking entry level here, all this for a job that starts out at about $9-something an hour. My ex-hubby makes closer to $40 an hour but hell’s bell’s - he’s been at it now for over 25 years! That’s a hell of a long time to “work your way up” to $10 LESS than what a Plumber or Electrician makes an hour, huh?
The only real money in the computer industry is in development, not design - and people tend to get this confused. A designer takes already developed languages and platforms and builds upon them with already developed tools in a creative, functional, and innovative manner. A developer is the person who created those languages, platforms, and tools. You have a hell of a lot better shot at making money if you can develop a game - create a game - than make high score on it. See what I’m saying? This is what colleges SHOULD teach. And maybe some do, I’ve never really looked into specialized programs offered by colleges such as IT Tech and the like. They may well do just that. But the typical computer courses offered by the average community college are so lame - I personally am amazed the Pell people even extend loans for them at all. When my friend Joanne was going thru a course very similar to what you guys are taking in Illinois, her course studies never ceased to amaze me. She spent weeks on crap like Power Point and Works Office. Christ, order Video Professor for $9.95 and save yourself the trip! LOL They also spent weeks on component part study, what a modem was, how it worked, what a router was, how it worked - again, Christ - read the tech manual and get on with it. LOL After she graduated (top of her class, I might add) she applied at TAS… they offered her a job in the Secretarial pool - answering the phone and sending faxes - $6.10 an hour. One of the gals in that same office had a GED and nothing else, hired at the same rate of pay for the same position. Is that wrong or what? Minorities who could barely speak English were making close to $10 an hour on the floor, working the assembly line.
That glory days of Silicon Valley and Dot Com business ventures are over guys. There is no gold rush, we missed it.
~Ang
